Doctor Who Club of Australia

[Greg]

Heading back into the mists of time, we reach the era with the patchiest retention of episodes. Results may be skewed towards those stories that survive...

The stories included are those from when Pat was the show's lead, not his subsequent return appearances.

As always, feel free to post your thoughts on why you chose the story that you did.

[montypython]

For a long time now, I considered The War Games to be my favourite, no contest. I was enthralled all the way through (and I still believe that the other Time Lord was the Master!). It was great to finally see the Time Lords, and I cried when Jamie and Zoe were returned home. I thought then that I'd seen the best classic story ever.

But recently, I saw a reconstruction of Fury from the Deep. Recons are sometimes a bit hard to get into, but this was really good. It actually had me feeling sorry for Victoria, and it actually put her scream to good use. When Quill and ... um ... *checks Wikipedia* Oak opened their mouths to release the gas, I was genuinely frightened. Actually going to the Wikipedia page right now I just about pissed myself scared. I dare you to go there now and not do the same.
The monster was also really good. From what I've read on these threads, the fans like monsters to be something real and seemingly normal, and they also like it to not actually be identified (like in Midnight).

I've also found a lot of similarities between Fury from the Deep and a typical Steven Moffat story:
*Both contain monsters that are seemingly normal and harmless
*Everybody lives!
*Both are scary

Ugh, I can't make up my mind! I only saw Fury from the Deep a few weeks ago, whereas The War Games was sometime last year. Am I biased?

Okay - given the fact that Fury from the Deep was a recon and I loved it, I probably would have loved the proper version even more. Congratulations, Fury from the Deep!

[Sulp Niar]

Troughton's era is a funny one for me, because - probably due to that catch-all "it's the 60s era" thing - I can never help but compare it to Hartnell, and it always seems formulaic in comparison.

Thankfully that's not always the case; 'The Mind Robber' is brilliant, for example. And 'The Enemy of the World' has a story that enthrals me, and I've only read the scripts and seen the remaining ep.

I guess the problem isn't that there's so many "base under siege" stories, it's that we can no longer see them... I suspect a lot of these come off much better visually than in script/audio form.

And yet... and yet, for all that I think 'Tomb of the Cybermen' is vastly overrated, I still enjoy watching it, and I still shiver horribly when the Cyberman bleeds foam . The magic of Who, I guess.

TO THE POINT! My favourite's 'The Power of the Daleks', it's got to be. I hesitate to call it "the best Dalek story ever" because there's too many extremely-good Dalek stories to make that claim, but... but dammit, it's the best Dalek story ever.

And by that, I mean, the best story that doesn't just have the Daleks in it, but explores the Daleks. Defines them. And even subverts them.

'Genesis', 'Revelation', 'Resurrection', 'Day', 'Dalek Invasion of Earth', 'Remembrance', 'Bad Wolf'... all great stories, but you could honestly interchange the monster. The Daleks' presence in this is essential to making the story work. It drives the story forward. In 'Power', the Daleks' slow reclaiming of their, well, power is what makes the plot go forward; it's their emotional, racist, sick desire to destroy everything. It's not just them deciding to take over some planet for the hell of it.

The most quoted line from this story is "Daleks conquer and destroooy, Daaaleks con-quer-and-des-troooy". But sometimes I get the feeling that the way it's quoted actually degenerates what it means. It's almost become this minor catchphrase, much like "Exterminate". What makes it so utterly powerful in the story isn't that it's a nice turn of speech, but that it's the battle-cry of a rejuvenated Dalek army, ready to annihilate everybody purely for the fun of it. It's a brilliant cliffhanger because it's a genuine "Oh, SHIT" moment.

And the next episode... I mean, I listened to this as an audio, with narration, for god's sake. And I couldn't even see what was going on. But that moment when everyone's dead, and there's this chillingly empty sound-effect... it really did hit me. Hard.

Oh god, and then there's "I AM YOUR SERVANT". 'Snakedance' and 'Midnight' are both great stories partly due to no-one listening or believing the Doctor, but 'Power' does it first, and - arguably - best. The colony leaders have got two options; they listen to this madman who's pretending to be an Examiner, or they listen to the nice-sounding robot that's offering to take away from their workload. Of course they listen to the Daleks. And in doing so, they dig their own graves. It's terrifying.

(I'm going to cut down the length of this post, but other great things include; Troughton's mischevious/scheming performance and comedy bits, and the utter tragedy of Lestersen)

This, for me, is how Dalek stories should work. Not Daleks charging in and exterminating people for the hell of it. It takes until the last bit of the story for them to even "EXTERMINATE!" in this, and that's far more effective than them waving guns around and yapping in high-pitched tones.

As I said... BEST DALEK STORY EVER. Only 'The Daleks', 'Evil' and 'Dalek' even run it close.

(And therefore, by extension... best Troughton story ever. )

[charlie]

I disagree about Tomb being overrated. It's definitely one of the best stories and I would argue easily the best cyber story (except for the harness). Toomb is definitly my fav story

[Greg]

When I were a lad, and that is quite some time ago, I used to watch Doctor Who with a zeal that bordered on the religious. (I think I'd given up religion before I first watched the show, but I may be wrong...) And the first Doctor I can recall is Patrick Troughton. The first thing I remember seeing on TV is the cliffhanger for episode 1 of The Tomb of the Cybermen. I blame Pat for setting me on a lifelong obsession.

Unlike a lot of Who fans, I remember bits and pieces from the second and third years of Pat's time on the show, with me memory of whole stories really only starting with his last year. Pity I can't download my memories for you all.

I'm always amazed when people say the the Troughton era is all about bases under siege. Yes, there is a large proportion of them, but it's not like it is every story. Even some stories where there's an enclosed setting, it's not like there is actually a siege going on. The Highlanders, The Underwater Menace, The Faceless Ones, The Evil of the Daleks, The Enemy of the World, The Mind Robber, The Invasion, The Space Pirates and The War Games don't match that description, and others effectively reverse it, so that teh enemy is in a hidden place and surrounded by the humans (The Power of the Daleks, The Macra Terror and The Tomb of the Cybermen). You can strip too much detail away from any story and say it is just like other stories similarly stripped down, but you deny each story its individuality in doing so. Its like saying every Doctr Who story is about a man who travels in a police box and fights monsters. It's true and yet it doesn't actually acknowledge the richness of teh stories.

Favourite...

It's a hard one (harder for me than picking my favourite Tom Baker story!). There's my first love, Tomb. Power is arguably the most important story in the show's history, and a bloody good one at that. Snowmen, Ice Warriors, Web and Invasion are all excellent. And I'm defiitely with monty - the only drawback of The War Games is finding enough time to watch all 10 episodes!

However, I'm plumping for the brilliant The Mind Robber, a story that is almost unique in the history of the show and one that was built from one part planned story and two parts changed plans and unexpected events. Deep down, I think that the first episode of that story may be the single best episode of Doctor Who[i] ever made. No, seriously!

And down through the years, the best of the Troughton years still shine through. The first episode of [i]The Mind Robber is a direct line ancestor of Midnight, the whole locked in a confined space with something outside working on the minds of the small party (and both descend from The Edge of Destruction). A significant percentage of Dalek is just The Power of the Daleks reworked. The Doctor solving problems with a light touch and a laugh, concealing his intellect at times and boasting of it at others. Hell, the sonic screwdriver derives from Trouton's era, as does the Doctor carrying jelly babies.

I would dearly love to see more lost Troughton episodes found. Yes, they'll be slow and show all the ill effects of the limited resources of the time, but there'll still be that central core of brilliance that attracted me to the show, and does to this day.

[Sulp Niar]

[Speckled Jim]

[Sulp Niar]

Oh no, I don't think it's a better story. I think it's a better Dalek story. You know what I mean? 'Power' examines how the Daleks tick; 'Genesis' is more about the circumstances they arose in, and arguably is more about Davros.

[SharazJek]

What a fascinating thread! And a varied poll. The Troughton era seems not to have any stand out stories, like Daleks for Hartnell, Talons for Tom and Caves for Peter for instance.

So I found this poll to be very difficult. I enjoy most 2nd Doctor stories equally. But I chose Evil of the Daleks as my favourite. I first saw the remaining episode 2 sometime in the early 90's, not long after it was first discovered. It had a magic about it I had never seen before. I just love the Victorian era and this story pulls it off extremely well. Ticking clocks also feature heavily to create the atmosphere. One of the most comforting but at the same time eerie sounds I can think of. Maxtible's Dalek chants of "Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill" towards the end are very scary on audio. I would love to have seen it on TV. Maybe one day when all the eps are found....

The only Pat story that comes close in atmosphere is The Web of Fear. Those scenes in the museum at the beginning of episode one are some of the creepiest in the shows history. Unfortunately that brilliant atmosphere didn't carry on into the following episodes which were mostly spent in the underground.

I hear what everone says about Power of the Daleks. I understand how important it is in respect of the shows history and how defining it was for the Daleks themselves, but I don't can't seem to enjoy it as much as Evil. Just a personal thing I guess. David Whitaker definately was a better writer than Terry Nation. Perhaps Terry realised that and that's why they weren't seen again in Dr Who for another 3 or 4 years.

Great poll Greg!

[Speckled Jim]

[Sulp Niar]

Nyder terrifies the pants off me now!

[Greg]

[kangamac]

THE TOMB OF THE CYBERMEN.

The Cybermen have always been my favourites and I have always enjoyed the smaller scale DW stories, so it finally came down to a choice between THE MOONBASE and THE TOMB OF THE CYBERMEN. I finally chose this one because it still exists in its entirety. It's such a sad shame that so few of the first two Doctors' TV stries still exist. I feel that the newer and younger fans are missing out on so much...

It is an archetypical DOCTOR WHO story from Patrick Troughton's era. It is a small scale affair but there is a very real threat present that has the potential to become much more, but it is not overbearing. In many repects, it has a lot in common with my previous choice - THE TIME MEDDLER.

It is another modest and unassuming tale, this time set in a quiet corner of the future, on an unrearkable planet that does not seem to be at the very epicentre of universal affairs. And once again, it is nice to view a story without intrusive CGI, intrusive music and an intrusive lead actor who appears to be saying his lines after snorting speed...

[iank]

The marvellously epic The War Games just pips the marvellously epic The Invasion.

[DrJohnSmith]

The Mind Robber gets my vote generally because the writers tried to do something radically different and it still ended up being a great story.

The atmosphere in the story is good and the first episode is really creepy.
In my opinion that particular episode is one of the best of all time.

[SharazJek]

Looks like "Tomb" is the winner so far, but I hope "Mind Robber" gets it for being so different.