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Doctor Who Club of Australia
45
Celebrating the 45th anniversary of Doctor Who
Sunday Nov 23rd at Drummoyne RSL Victoria Rd Drummoyne
11 am to 6 pm
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| Ghost Light |
| Excellent |
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46% |
[ 7 ] |
| Very Good |
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13% |
[ 2 ] |
| Good |
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20% |
[ 3 ] |
| Fair |
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20% |
[ 3 ] |
| Turkey |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 15 |
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ADAMK
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 220
Location: Canberra
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Beatly
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 375
Location: London
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 Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent, one of four incredibly good stories to end the series. If only the other 25 seasons had been this consistently good...
Very intelligent story - sometimes too much, and sometimes confusing, but the four stories in this season aren't things one forgets quickly. Lots of mystery too, something which had been missing from the series for quite a while. |
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Theta Sigma
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 4566
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| First-time viewers be warned: you need to watch this story several times in order to understand it. So it is best to either get the DVD or record it for later viewings. |
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Greg
Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 1853
Location: Canberra
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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You don't need to watch this story 'several times' to understand it. I mean, seriously!
Yes, the information is tightly packed and some of the dialogue isn't plain (particularly when whispered). The story benefits from repeated viewings as you won't necessarily see exactly where it is going to, and there are some interconnections that you might miss, but people make this story out to be relatively incomprehensible. It doesn't spoonfeed you explanations and, in that way, it's Doctor Who grown up.
It's a story that could have benefitted from a fourth episode to reduce the amount of information you have to take in in short periods, but it wasn't given that and, I think, it's probably a better story for that. |
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SharazJek
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 932
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:20 am Post subject: |
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An excellent from me. FINALLY the lighting gets turned down and we get a truly 'dark' and atmospheric rip snorter of a story.
I must disagree with Greg in this case though. It IS a little difficult to understand, and you WOULD benefit from several repeat viewings. But I don't think it's so much the story, but rather it's the concepts within it that are a little mind-blowing and tough to comprehend.
Ghost Light is truly a very unique piece of science fiction IMO, it's much more than great Doctor Who. |
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Greg
Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 1853
Location: Canberra
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| SharazJek wrote: | | I must disagree with Greg in this case though. It IS a little difficult to understand, and you WOULD benefit from several repeat viewings. |
Actually, it sounds like you agree with me! As I said, it's grown-up Doctor Who, and benefits from both thinking about it and watching it again. (Most stories give out the explanation on a silver platter.) But you can watch it once and have an understanding of what's going on - and maybe even a good understanding.
It's the kind of story that has become more common on TV - carefully plotted through, with ideas introduced at one point that aren't explained later (if at all), layered storylines which can be examined for extra meaning, characters with motivations that aren't entirely about getting the story from point A to point B. However, the real difference is that these shows are that - whole series devoted to a complex storyline, not just three episodes of a season. |
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SharazJek
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 932
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Greg wrote: | | It's the kind of story that has become more common on TV - carefully plotted through, with ideas introduced at one point that aren't explained later (if at all), layered storylines which can be examined for extra meaning, characters with motivations that aren't entirely about getting the story from point A to point B. However, the real difference is that these shows are that - whole series devoted to a complex storyline, not just three episodes of a season. |
And this was both the triumph and the tragedy of Season 26. Surely the most consistent, well thought out and downright interesting season since the Hinchcliffe/Holmes era.
All confined to a mere 14 x 25 minute episodes.  |
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Theta Sigma
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 4566
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Greg wrote: | You don't need to watch this story 'several times' to understand it. I mean, seriously!
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The apostrophere on "several times" was not necessary. Really.
I mean Sylvester McCoy said the exact same thing when interviewed on UKTV back in 1998 when he said that Ghost Light is his favourite story. I myself did not understand it when I saw the story in full in 1998. I did not understand it until I watched the episodes again and again on DVD last year.
Prior to Ghost Light, Marc Platt submitted Lungbarrow which explored the Doctor's past.
Although not made as a TV serial, Platt did adapt Lungbarrow for the
New Adventures range of books which is now an eBook at the official site:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/ebooks/lungbarrow/index.shtml
One difference between Lungbarrow the book and the outline for the TV series is that wheares the TV outline took place in a haunted house (this setting would be retained for Ghost Light), the book takes place on the Doctor's home planet of Gallifrey.
Now on Ghost Light itself, the final recorded serial of the classic series but not the last to be aired:
Love it when Gwendoline sings and plays on the piano.
Frank Windsor's (Inspector Mackenzie) early career included appearing in A For Andromeda starring frequent Doctor Who guest star Peter Halliday and produced and directed by future Doctor Who director Michael Hayes. Thought I might mention this given the fact the BBC announced in a press release that they were remaking A For Andromeda just a few days ago.
http://doctorwhoaustralia.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=687
Apparently Mrs Grose is not a character that originated in Ghost Light - from DWM #348 in The Fact of Fiction analysis on the story by Alan Barnes:
"Mrs Grose will soon leave Josiah's service for Bly, in Essex - where she will find herself heading for another haunted household, bvecoming a pivotal figure in Henry James' creepy novella The Turn of the Screw (1898). The link is underlined in Platt's novelisation, which has Mrs Grose flee Gabriel Chase afteer an encounter with the ragged, 'grey lady' form of Control. (As she prepares to leave, the Doctor, rather cruelly, tells her to give his regards to Peter Quint - that is, James' ghost: "The Doctor smiled: the staff were deserting the house. That was another turn of the screw in Josiah's coffin.")
The Doctor slights Inspector Mackenzie on how much he has been eating since he has awoken. To be fair on the Inspector he hasn't eaten anything for two years and it would be expected for him to eat that much. |
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Greg
Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 1853
Location: Canberra
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Theta Sigma wrote: | | The apostrophere on "several times" was not necessary. Really. |
A common use of apostrophes is to show a quotation, especially when only a small part of the text is being quoted. |
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dunmall
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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i'm enjoying this story more then when i watched it on video about 5 years back, i may just have to get the DVD.
I agree that season 26 is a pretty consistant season when it comes to quality. |
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Wester
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Brisbane
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| OMG - the announcer said Dr Who is being replaced!!! Thanks alot for bringing me back to reality! |
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charlie
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1400
Location: Currarong (never heard of it?! Its near Nowra. What?! Nowra's below The Gong!)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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EXCELLENT! I loved this story. It was good to see a dark story that is well written rather than things like Happiness Patrol. It is one of those rare stories that are great the first time and then you watch them again and understand something you didnt before so it's just as good as the first time you watched it. The most prominent examples of this being the Matrix movies. Ghost Light was brilliant. I think this was the best one since Caves.
I cant wait to see it a second time. |
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kalid
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 37
Location: Geelong
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:28 pm Post subject: good stuff |
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I have to say, I enjoyed this one a lot. The feel of this is just so different to pretty much every other story i've seen so far (which is everything except the last two).
I admit to being just a bit confused straight after watching it - but I watched episode 3 again later on to get more out of it, and at some point everything suddenly made sense.
It definitely gets an excellent from me. |
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dunmall
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| i really enjoyed that. So does anyone recommend the dvd? |
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SharazJek
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 932
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| yes |
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SharazJek
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 932
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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I had a look at this dvd this morning and it suddenly struck me why many people find the concepts in this so hard to digest.
You're bound to get confused when anything or anyone tries to explain unguided evolution by natural selection. I'm with the Reverend Ernest Matthews on this one. It's one of the biggest 'mumbo jumbo' and unproven theories in the history of mankind.
If the concept was treated as simply science fiction, it would be a lot easier to accept, because logically, to any rational human being who isn't blinkered into the absolute denial of intelligent design at any cost, evolution is pure fantasy.
What we have in stories like Ghost Light is an attempt to treat evolution seriously, almost as a crossover from the Whoniverse (don't you just love that term), into our reality. In that sense, it fails completely.
I have no problem dealing with Ghost Light in my own mind as pure fantasy, because when you tend not to see so many holes in things when you view them like that. But when you try to equate the script with our reality, I reckon a lot of people must go a little bananas, as Ghost Light clearly is trying to convince the viewer that this is how the universe really is.
The 'theories' that Ghost Light presents as fact are as factual as evil since the dawn of time being trapped like a genie in a bottle.
Actually, I'd be more inclined to believe evil could be bottled than 'evil'ution  by natural selection.
Hey that would be a good title for a PK Dick novel......We Can Bottle Evil For You Wholesale! |
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Greg
Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 1853
Location: Canberra
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| SharazJek wrote: | | to any rational human being who isn't blinkered into the absolute denial of intelligent design at any cost, evolution is pure fantasy. |
Sorry, but anyone is entitled to have faith in whatever they believe, but to my mind there's no bigger blinkers in the world than assuming the fact that you believe something makes it true!
And, without wanting to start an argument, people who object to the theory of evolution usually cling to something that also can't be proven (ie, the precepts of a religion).
It is impossible to conclusively prove either of these theories, so what an individual chooses to believe in gets down to faith.
(Oddly enough faith is a significant theme in both Ghost Light and The Curse of Fenric - both religious faith and other types of faith |
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charlie
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1400
Location: Currarong (never heard of it?! Its near Nowra. What?! Nowra's below The Gong!)
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, technically you cant really prove anything because conclusions and investigations are all just assumptions and educated guesses based on data. |
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SharazJek
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 932
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Greg wrote: |
Sorry, but anyone is entitled to have faith in whatever they believe, but to my mind there's no bigger blinkers in the world than assuming the fact that you believe something makes it true! |
That is true. No disputing that. However, Im not talking about faith, I'm talking about logic.
| Quote: | | And, without wanting to start an argument, people who object to the theory of evolution usually cling to something that also can't be proven (ie, the precepts of a religion). |
Intelligent design proves itself. I'm not talking about religion here either. Evolution requires far more in terms of faith than a creationist would ever need.
| Quote: | | It is impossible to conclusively prove either of these theories, so what an individual chooses to believe in gets down to faith. |
I'm inclined to think that it's more of what a person chooses NOT to believe that drives them. For instance, smoking kills. It says so on the packet. And it's been provenBut people either have no regard for their own lives and take the risks in smoking, or they simply refuse to believe the facts.
The world has the stamp of intelligent design on it, but many refuse to accept it or simply couldn't care less.
I disagree that the creation and evolution theories cannot be proven or disproven. They can and have been.
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(Oddly enough faith is a significant theme in both Ghost Light and The Curse of Fenric - both religious faith and other types of faith |
How is faith a theme in Ghost Light? |
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Greg
Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 1853
Location: Canberra
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| SharazJek wrote: | | Greg wrote: |
Sorry, but anyone is entitled to have faith in whatever they believe, but to my mind there's no bigger blinkers in the world than assuming the fact that you believe something makes it true! |
That is true. No disputing that. However, Im not talking about faith, I'm talking about logic.
| Quote: | | And, without wanting to start an argument, people who object to the theory of evolution usually cling to something that also can't be proven (ie, the precepts of a religion). |
Intelligent design proves itself. I'm not talking about religion here either. Evolution requires far more in terms of faith than a creationist would ever need. |
Well, I don't agree with that. Evolution proves itself in that it's logic has convinced and satisfied many intelligent and educated people as being likely to be true. (And yes, you can say the same for creationism and/or intelligent design (if people think there's a difference between the two)). To me, there's a lot more sense that things change and develop over time - we see that around us in other people on a day to day basis: they grow, they cahnge, they develop, and not always into something better - rather than that there's something inconceivably powerful and intelligent who just decides this is how it all fits together. To me, that's a leap of faith on a much larger scale.
| Quote: | | I disagree that the creation and evolution theories cannot be proven or disproven. They can and have been. |
Not to me they haven't!
| Quote: | | How is faith a theme in Ghost Light? |
Faith is a driving force behind many of the characters. It's the (religious) faith of Reverend Matthews that drives him to confront the views he disagrees with. Gwendolyne is drivem by faith in her uncle (who haolds a position that is more important than that of her parents - you could arguie he's the god of her world, and that she will do anything to please him, even willing to kill for him). The Doctor has faith in Ace's ability to overcome her past and deal with the situation. Light has faith in his ability to catalogue all life on Earth and move on (Light, I guess, believes in intelligent design!). Nimrod has faith in Light (as his god) and, later, proves to have retained his earlier relion and swaps faith to the Doctor. Josiah has faith in himself and believes he is unassailable and able to deal with anything (although his faith is a bit shaky). Inspector Mackenzie has faith in police methods to solve the problem. Ace, as always, has faith in the Doctor to make things right. Redvers has lost faith his own identity - but he has faith in himself, and continually says what he has done or would have done under the circumstances he finds himself in.
Throughout the story, people's faith is called into question and conflict. Faith grows and wains, as does the individual's position in the story - as faith diminishes, the character is beaten, as it grows, they rise in position by comparison to each other (as exemplifued by Josiah and Control effectoively exchanging roles by the end of the story - Controls faith in herself grew, while Josiah's fiath in himself diminishes).
It's a pretty secular faith for most characters, but that doesn't make it any the less important to the characters themselves. |
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