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Doctor Who Club of Australia 45 Celebrating the 45th anniversary of Doctor Who Sunday Nov 23rd at Drummoyne RSL Victoria Rd Drummoyne 11 am to 6 pm
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| Is the Doctor fascist? |
| Yes |
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25% |
[ 2 ] |
| No |
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75% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 8 |
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montypython
Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Posts: 902 Location: My own little world
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I simply cannot see the Doctor as gay. So what if he was accepting of Jack's sexuality? So what if he flirted with him? He flirted with Rose too. And has everyone forgotten that he almost admitted to loving Rose 3 times? Plus that would mean a lot of explaining as far as Susan's concerned, but then again we don't know much about her anyway. |
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Panecea
Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 121 Location: A point in time and space...
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Sulp Niar wrote: | | Panecea wrote: | | I' believe that is the point of a punishment, charlie. If you recall, the Coucil (at the end of his second incarnation) erased the Doctor's knowledge of time / space mechanics, which inturn took away his ability to control the TARDIS and allowed the them to send him on missions against his will. He protested this fact a number of times. |
I should point out here that, although the Doctor often angrily declares how much he hates the Time Lords using him and not wanting to get their "lily white hands dirty", he often goes through with what they say. In fact, he may resent it, but often whatever he's doing is what he would have done anyway if he'd landed on the planet by accident. The only real exception is Genesis of the Daleks, although people tend to forget the Time Lords didn't tell him that he HAD to destroy the Daleks forever in it. He also had the option of simply finding a way to halt their development or, if I remember correctly, find a weakness in them that could be used later.
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This is because he had no choice but to comply, as I have said before, the Council had control of his TARDIS. With the exceptiontion of the Genesis of the Daleks, the Doctor had no knowledge of the problems occurring on the planets to which he was "delivered".` It was always only after he was forced to explore that he felt obliged in any way to stay and fix a problem. If this weren't the case, it is highly likely he would have gone somewhere else.
In the case of Genesis of the Daleks, the Doctor's prime directive was to slow the development of the Daleks and only if the opportunity arose was he to destroy them. When the opportunity did arise the Doctor was faced with a moral dilemma because he wasn't sure that he had the right to destroy them.
Your theory about Susan is interesting and I would agree with it but I think she is only part of the reason for his fondness. I believe it is more to do with the fact that (as you said) he sees the better side of his people in humans, the side that is likely to take action if a problem arises. The ironic fact is that the same problem that he has with his society exists in ours. To this you would probably say that the Doctor is trying to curbe this "trait" in our society and I would have to agree with you.
Furthermore, I must apologise for my comments about your idea to document the Doctor's past. When you said "history" I thought meant a history of events but as that is not the case, my comments are irrelevent. |
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Greg Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 1853 Location: Canberra
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| montypython wrote: | | I simply cannot see the Doctor as gay. So what if he was accepting of Jack's sexuality? So what if he flirted with him? He flirted with Rose too. And has everyone forgotten that he almost admitted to loving Rose 3 times? Plus that would mean a lot of explaining as far as Susan's concerned, but then again we don't know much about her anyway. |
I don't think anyone's claiming the Doctor is gay. (Assuming that label necessarily means anything to a Time Lord...)
However, there's this media-inspired assumption that is wrong and that I hate: that 'love' means 'wants to have sex with'. It's eminently possible for the Doctor to love Rose and to be sexually indifferent to her.
I've frequently said that my view of the Doctor's sexuality is that he's a non-practising heterosexual. He doesn't seem interested in sex, but he seems to act like he's straight. (And that doesn't cause any problem with the simplest explanation of Susan - the Doctor says he's her granddaughter, she says he's her grandfather, so the explanation that needs the least amount of fudging, interpretation and making up excuses is that they are grandfather and granddaughter!)
So what does this mean I make of the Doctor and Rose's relationship? They look like two people having a great time together. You can spend a lot of time with someone, have huge amounts of fun, be emotionally very close, physically express affection (kisses and hugs) and never ever have sex with them. That's what I personally see going on on the TV screen. |
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Sulp Niar
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 802 Location: Where You Only Live Thirteen Times
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Panecea wrote: | | Furthermore, I must apologise for my comments about your idea to document the Doctor's past. When you said "history" I thought meant a history of events but as that is not the case, my comments are irrelevent. |
That's fine, mate. To make it even clearer, simply because I put it so poorly into words, I'm really just looking at how each event effects the Doctor - continuity can go to hell. Emotion over continuity for me, thanks. Must be why I'm such an 8th Doctor fan.
And yes, Greg, I agree entirely with what you've said about the Doctor's sexuality. I suppose in one incarnation he could change sexuality though? If he can change gender (we haven't seen this obviously, but it's still an unanswered question), then he could change sexuality. On the other hand, as Greg says, it wouldn't make much of a difference because he blatantly isn't practicising whichever sexuality he has.
I agree with the media-assumption too, and this transfers into a lot of soapy stuff. To be honest, my measure of love is the more I love someone the less I want to have sex with them. Sorry if that's a bit revealing and weird, but I guess it's a love over lust thing, and I'm sure the Doctor is exactly the same.
In regards to what you said about Susan, the only reason I like to think she isn't EXACTLY his granddaughter is because of how it influences him. If she truly was his granddaughter, and considering how fragile she was, I can't see him locking her out of the TARDIS. Anyway, theoretically if the Doctor IS "the Other", then theoretically she is his granddaughter anyway, even if not biologically. The Doctor doesn't had to have had sex to have had a granddaughter, though if he did I really don't care.
It'd be interesting if there was sort of like a Vortisaur that delivered babies though...
Last edited by Sulp Niar on Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Panecea
Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 121 Location: A point in time and space...
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I believe he was just hurt by the fact that she wanted to leave him, as you pointed out he seems to have a fragile side. Then again, he may just have been protecting Time Lord technology, as he was when he took Barbra Wright and Ian Chesterton. |
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Sulp Niar
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 802 Location: Where You Only Live Thirteen Times
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Resurrecting a dead and offensive thread, I am... Only because I have something to say that won't make much sense unless you've read what I wrote in this thread. (Takes deep breath)
What if Rose is known as "Bad Wolf" because of Queen Victoria? Since in Tooth and Claw they say there's something of the wolf about you, I've taken that literally and decided she possibly has werewolf genes. In which case, what if she's the illegitimate daughter of royalty?
In which case, if the Doctor knew this, maybe this was why he loved her so much? She's a true Brit after all, then. (This is a brief suggestion, not a whole argument, this bit, so play nice with your criticisms lol)
We've seen the Doctor as a manipulator throughout the series. We've seen him play games with the Wolves of Fenric. Now, "pure" English seems to be Anglo-Saxon (not my personal belief you understand), which is a mixing of the English and the Vikings. In which case, since the Doctor manipulated Ace's life to defeat Fenric, what if Rose was the same thing? I mean, it seems that the Doctor deliberately set Mickey down his own path - considering that Torchwood is so important to the series at the moment, I find it unlikely that he wasn't aware that any of this would happen. Captain Jack joins Torchwood; Rose and Mickey find themselves protecting the Earth in an alternate Torchwood; all set up by Queen Victoria. Surely this can't be a coincidence?
By the way, the reason that she's a "Bad" Wolf is because she's illegitimate.
So there you have it. How do you like my vague and insubstantial theory? |
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Panecea
Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 121 Location: A point in time and space...
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds interesting... but I disagree with you on one point. You do realise that the royal family of Britain isn't actually British. |
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Sulp Niar
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 802 Location: Where You Only Live Thirteen Times
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| HA! You're right. Well, actually, I know they have German blood down the line, but just because of that doesn't mean they're not British - they've lived in England for ages after all. I think by now they'd be considered British, wouldn't you? |
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charlie
Joined: 08 Dec 2005 Posts: 1400 Location: Currarong (never heard of it?! Its near Nowra. What?! Nowra's below The Gong!)
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Well if we were going to go by bloodline then we're all african anyway. |
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Sulp Niar
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 802 Location: Where You Only Live Thirteen Times
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Well exactly. |
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kangamac
Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 2771
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:12 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor has shown that he can be antisocial, arrogant, cruel, dishonest, hypocritical, immature, inconsiderate, manipulative, pompous, psychotic, racist, selfish and sexist.
He has also commited murder, genocide and theft for one reason or another, not to mention some recent behaviour that appears to border on the paedophillic. However, I cannot remember him ever acting in a manner that I would describe as fascist.
(Although he has displayed certain facets of fascism from time to time...) |
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Martin Dunne
Joined: 21 Feb 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| Unless you subscribe to the Cornell herasy that "the thin Doctor" is the Jack Kine face of the supreme leader in Inferno. In which case he make a fine fascist dictator. |
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Ickabod
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 590 Location: far far away
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:29 am Post subject: |
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I've always thought of the Doctor as being assexual
Last edited by Ickabod on Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ickabod
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 590 Location: far far away
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| hmmm sex.......lust.......and love....I think the Doctor loves but it's like how you love your animal....no strings attached so to speak....or I could be wrong |
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Sulp Niar
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 802 Location: Where You Only Live Thirteen Times
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Ickabod wrote: | | I think the Doctor loves but it's like how you love your animal.... |
Oh dear, don't say that to Doctor Who fans... you'd be surprised at just how they can love their animals. |
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